Talk:Xelloss

When I first arrived here at KanzakDex, this was the first article I checked out. :) After reading and re-reading it quite a few times, I couldn't supress the feeling that it is somewhat biased. During these months when I began contributing, the question of how to write objectively about Xelloss (if that's even possible :) ) always lingered in the back of my head. Finally, this is what I came up with. I reorganized the article so it presents only the bare, unarguable facts first, and deals with the problem of Xelloss' personality in a separate section. I didn't touch the Relationships section yet, because I still need to figure out how to write about that without siding with any theory (which is quite close to impossible, I must say :/), but hopefully I can get back to that later.

All oppinions are welcome and desperately begged for. :) I would especially like to know some info about the inscription on Xelloss' true form (I did not include it in this revision), which seems pretty unbelievable to me, considering his form does not seem to be even solid. --Pip25 11:47, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Whew... I'm done with the relationship section as well. I expanded some topics, paying attention to the noticable differences between the novels and anime. I also made some small edits and additions to the other sections. --Pip25 13:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Question: I've seen a lot of claims that Xelloss was created during the Kounma war (and I see this article says the same), but I've never seen any support for that. We know he fought in the Kounma war, but is there any reason to suppose he (and the other subordinates) don't predate it? -- Avocado 20:19, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The creation of the mazoku generals and priests are closely tied to the special situation that arose in the Kōma War, namely the creation of the mazoku barrier. I do not remember when this was said exactly, but I will look into it. --Pip25 10:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I did not find an explicit source, but there are numerous things which support this, such as:

--Pip25 10:06, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * While Xelloss did recognize some artifacts which were created during the Shinma War 5000 years ago, (probably because of their artistic style,) he knew nothing about their powers, neither did he seem to be any more knowledgeable than Lina and co. about the world's history before the Kōma War. He also had to rely on guidebooks when he ventured into the Outer World, showing that his knowledge of the things outside the barrier is strictly limited.
 * We know from interviews that Dynast created at least two of his high ranking servants after the war. Considering the circumstances, it is unlikely that the other priests and generals predate these by much.
 * Mazoku lords do not create such powerful servants on a whim. The power they sacrifice is just too great; they weren't able (or did not dare) to create new ones in place of the fallen. As it seems that between the Shinma War and the Kōma War was a time of relative peace, it seems unlikely that the lords would have worked together to create these followers, so carefully ballanced in power, for no major reason.


 * Hmm. Those are convincing, though Slayers TRY would tend to contradict them somewhat. (Of course, Slayers TRY is iffy at best.) For example, there's no particular reason the Golden Dragon priest (Saichourou?) should recognize Xelloss unless Xelloss predates the Kōma war. (Then again, maybe that goes into the errors section for Slayers TRY.)-- Avocado 15:03, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The scene with the Supreme Elder shows well that information does not go both ways. :) He (and before, Filia as well) does not recognize Xelloss on sight, but only when they learn of his name. (And Xelloss did not know the elder from before, neither did he know about the location of their temple, heck not even about massacre of the ancient dragons. :) ) It seems that the dragons serving the Flarelord, with their prophecy powers and all, were able to gather some information on the happenings inside the barrier (like the fall of Hellmaster), but they weren't really able to see those things happening like through a television set. :) --Pip25 07:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Novel appearances
Xel's page says he appears in novels 1-8. I thought his first appearance was in novel 5. Am I wrong? -Flarecarrot 06:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You are completely right, I have no idea how that got there... It's fixed now, thanks. :) --Pip25 06:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

xellos
At the first line, Xellos is discribed as the priest of Xellas. That is true but he is moreover his general, isn't he ?
 * No, that is a fanon claim. In the sixth novel, he says that his full name and title is "Xelloss, the Priest". Zellas simply does not have a general, the two differ mostly in name only anyway, according to Kanzaka. --Pip25 14:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Xellos & Cone Form: I'm not going to edit that part of the article any more, because it is true that there is no explicit evidence that his astral form being a cone is something that only occurs in the novel continuity. However, I will point out that the novels and the anime are considered entirely seperate continuities, and when details between two continuities are neither explicitly confirmed nor denied, it's considered a touch more professional to acknowledge the ambiguity. As I noted, we don't have direct word of god evidence one way or another that the cone Xellos in the anime is what he really looks like on the astral plane.Ranime Codexer 19:48, May 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * We do not agree. In my opinion, it is not really professional and most certainly more confusing for the reader of the article to present the novel and anime continuities in such a manner. The anime storyboards are checked by the author, and he is consulted about in-universe facts. It is thus reasonable to assume that, unless an explicit contradiction can be shown (as it is the case with Lost Universe, Duclis' backstory in Slayers REVOLUTION, etc.), the facts established in the novels are true to the anime (and sometimes even vice versa, although care must be taken in that case). This saves a lot of unnecessary padding, enhances clarity, and does not affect the validity of the information - unless some new fact or contradiction is brought to light, in which case adjustments have to be made.
 * This is the current policy of KanzakaDex: if explicit differences exist between continuities, we note them. If there are no explicit differences between continuities in a subject, then we discuss them jointly. In this case, there is no explicit contradiction arising from the assumption that Xelloss' true form is the same as in the novels (it is even heavily implied to be so), thus we do not make a distinction. --Pip25 11:43, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

02:47, December 17, 2011 (UTC) problem between slayers try and main novel number 7206.167.182.225 02:47, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

As the article said, in slayers try, Xelloss should had been created 1013 years ago. That is on complete contradiction to what Xelloss said in the main novel number 7 where he said that Milgazia and he have already met in the Demon War and this war took place "around 12 hundred years ago". (p115) Thus we can assume that in slayers try, the creators of the anime made a mistake I think.
 * No, I think the novel translators are mistaken in this case. Both the anime, and the numerous available Slayers manga state that the Kōma War took place one thousand, and not one thousand two hundred years ago. (This is actually not the only date they got wrong, regrettably.)

Another point I have to add. It is about the relationship between Lina and Xelloss. Xelloss definitively respects Lina at least after the discussion they had in the epilogue of novel 6 when she agreed to shut her mouth in order no to say that he is a mazoku to the others.
 * I think this is stated in the article, with the comment that Lina and Xelloss are on more friendly terms in the anime compared to the novels.

Finally according to what say Zelgadiss himself (and a thought of Lina), it is not only one but two manuscripts of the Claire Bible that Xelloss destroyed whereaas Zelgadiss wanted to read them. One was in the kingdom of Dills and the second in Krotz's hideout. (novel 5 page 205)
 * I don't understand this. Xelloss burned the copy in the Kingdom of Dills well before the novels' events, possibly before Zelgadiss was even turned into a chimera. He and Xelloss did not even know each other when it happened. --Pip25 11:01, December 19, 2011 (UTC)